>> okay. alison writesanswer. >> i think my cat tried to kill me in miz sleep. he's 20 pounds and woke me by jumping on my head. >> 20 pounds. have you heard of cat nutrition? come on. work him out. >> jeffrey writes, i would like to see if mike barnicle has a buttton missing. >> i have more than a button missing. "morning joe" starts right now. >> i just completed a meeting with all the congressional leaders from all chambers, from both parties. i have to say, i thought it was a very constructive meeting. people were frank. we discussed the various options available to us. everybody reconfirmed the importance of completing our

work and raising the debt limit ceiling so that the full faith and credit of the united states of america. i will reconvene here on sunday with the expectation that at that point the parties will at least know where each other's bottom lines are and will hopefully be in a position to then start engaging in the hard bargaining necessary to get a deal done. >> all right. good morning. it is friday, july 8th. welcome to "morning joe." a lot to talk about this morning. with us on set, mike barnicle. we have the director of the earth institute at columbia university, dr. jeffrey sachs and richard haas. is this a cfr meeting?

>> on camera. >> awesome. >> michael? >> i vice president paid my dues. >> former governor howard dean. good to have you on board this morning. >> thanks, mika. >> there's so many headlines, news of the world going down and what it means or if it will or if it will be rebranded. one thing we'll be talking about. in yemen, the president was seriously wounded in an explosion. he made an appearance. very awkward looking, very different and what it means. we'll talk about that as well. i want to bring this up because it plays in the budget. sorry, where is my obesity story. >> i had a thing about a 20-pound cat. >> that's stupid.

obesity rates rise 90% since 1995. this is incredible. each of these states look at how much is spent on obesity related illnesses. medicare and medicaid spend 20% of their budget to treat illnesses and these numbers are staggering. it plays into the debate we are having in washington. >> this september in new york, for the first time ever, governments are going to gather to talk about noncommune cal diseases. obesity is one of the biggest drivers of health care cost around the world. >> impacts national security. this is the bottom line. >> it's real. obesity, heart disease, smoking related, alcohol related. more than infectious disease. >> you can go state by state,

school by school, no recess. cutbacks and the vending machines in the schools. >> the food in general. we can talk about that, dr. sachs. mississippi is 4.4%. we are talking not just a little bit overweight, we are talking obese. >> if you look at how country's rank, the united states is off the charts. one-third of americans are obese. another one-third is overweight. there's no other place on the planet like it. it's our fast food industry. >> absolutely. howard dean, when you look at this and the fight in washington shouldn't it be encompassing and it's simple math, in a way? >> obesity is going to turn out to be environmentally related. in this incredibly stressful environment, i think the peptide

composition of people has changed. there's interesting unpublished research that indicates it might be simply big time peptide disorders. we don't know. i don't think it's as simple as trying to pass by the kentucky fried checken outlet without going in. this is a serious medical problem. we need to know more about it before we know how to treat it right. >> not that i disagree with you, governor but sometimes we reach for more complex reasons when the simpler reasons are in front of us. the tv remote control clicker and video games. this nation is filled with kids from 8 to 18 who never get off the couch. look at the advertisements for the real to life video games we have around us. that's all they play. they don't go out and play catch or run down the block to get

milk. >> i think that's true. i didn't mean to say it had nothing to do with it but i think it's going to be a complex set of problems. it's going to defie easy political solutions. >> we'll move on to the budget. nine of ten states with the highest obesity led by mississippi, alabama and west virginia. they lead the nation in diabetes and high blood pressure. it's, you know, obviously to me when we talk health care and medicaid and all the cuts we want to make, we are looking at a country weakened by an epidemic. let's go to washington. a deadline is approaching. lawmakers working over the weekend. president obama says he and congressional leaders will reconvene on sunday. it comes after the meeting with the leaders yesterday making

their statement in the brief room, the president called the talks constructive but both parties have a lot of work to do. >> i want to emphasize nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to. they are far apart on a wide range of issues. again, i thought all the leaders came in a spirit of compromise and a spirit of wanting to solve problems. everybody acknowledged that there's going to be pain involved politically on all sides, but our biggest obligation is to make sure that we are doing the right thing by the american people, creating an environment which we can grow the economy and make sure more and more people are being put back to work. >> meanwhile, house speaker john boehner is telling fellow republicans the odds of reaching a deal are 50/50. he acknowledged revenue

increases could be part of it. >> everything is on the table except raising taxes on the american people. >> we, as republicans are not going to support tax increases. it is counter intuitive to think you can raise taxes in a sputtering economy. >> nancy pelosi -- listen up. listen to what she says before you react. okay? expected to meet privately with president obama today to discuss raising the debt ceiling. entitlement reform is expected to come up. reductions to medicare and social security. jay carnie says it's not news. pelosi and other house democrats expressed alarm at the proposal. >> we do not support cuts in benefits on social security and medicare. any discussion of medicare or

social security should be on its own table. do not consider social security a piggy bank for giving tax cuts. we are not going to balance the budget on the backs of people with disabilities. >> i'm sorry. i think that's fair. we are not going talk tax cuts and the wealthy giving back a bit in society. i'm sorry, it's not going to impact jobs to make sure revenue enhancers are in place. why should we make cuts to medicare, medicaid and social securi security. they need regrouped. anyone disagree? >> it's the willie sutton approach. control the budget. go to entitlements. nobody is talking balancing budgets of social security. what's on the table is the cost of living adjustments made to

social security, the rate of increase of future benefits. we are not going to have seniors starving. >> of course not. why touch it unless the other side is going to give a little, too. >> fair enough. what you are seeing is what everyone is talking ability. what's going to be on and the conditions. president obama said nothing is agreed unless everything is. >> based on the president's statement and boehner's, they are pretty far along. it was not a statement. it was probably agreed upon following the meeting, the exact language. the secret negotiations will carry on through the weekend. if they come out with a deal that, as richard said, involves changes but not cuts but the democratic caucus or a large number of members in the caucus

react and republicans revolt to changes to the tax code they view as a tax increase, plus the big cuts in defense budget, i think the whole thing could blow up very quickly. the implications could be climbtist. >> what no one truly tested, it's impossible to test because you don't know if it's going to happen until it happens. if we wake up one morning and newspapers saying u.s. government. deal blows up. congressional members revolt. u.s. and the default. that could have cascading effects. that is the biggest risk with doing all these negotiations behind closed doors. >> howard dean? >> i have to disagree with that. that headline is unlikely. the political consequences for the republicans are a disaster.

the back-up position is we are going to pass a bill to last us six months and so forth and so on. the talks are not going to fail. the debt ceiling is going to be raised. here is the optimistic piece of this. there is an agreement. we talked obje eed about it on . you will receive cuts. i don't think you are going to see drastic reforms. i think you are going to see restraint on growth. don't cut benefits, just payment. i think you are going to see quote, unquote, revenue increases. this is a grand bargain to be made here. i think obama is doing a great job, i have to say, trying to reach a bargain instead of settling for a stopgap measure. there's a better than 50/50 chance to get a bargain. i think there's zero chance not

to raise the debt ceiling. >> there's a poll by the pew research center, most americans don't want benefits cut from medicare and medicaid. they say it's important they stay in touch. all three programs need to be rebuilt. they gave them mediocre performance. there's room for improvement that could involve saving, yes? >> it's not a problem with medicare, it's the entire health care system. the payment system encourages more and more spending. they have to bite the bullet and cap payments. hospitals, doctors and nurses take care of people. give them a fixed amount of money. that will solve the problem. >> dr. sachs. >> there's going to be a deal, but a bad deal.

it's going to be like december with the president selling out. it's been done. we have an agreement the american people do not want just at the pew survey said yesterday. richard is not right. the money is not where the entitlements are, it's the top 1% of the country. they have 25% of the income. >> there's money. >> but the money that's off the table is the rich. that's the game. >> that's true. >> you have a room. every one of those people are a millionaire. they are negotiating away the benefits of the poor because medicaid is going to be on the chopping block. they are negotiating the cost of living increases of social security. they are doing what the american people do not want by overwhelming m overwhelming majorities. the reason they are doing it behind closed doors is the american people do not want this agreement.

that's all. >> defend yourself. how dare you? >> i'll follow. >> there's a good point he makes, though. >> if there was, i missed it. >> come on, you know where the money is in this country. >> let me make by point. entitlement growth is the biggest challenge chlgt overall, it's medicare, more than social security. howard is right. we are not going to do it in the short run. zero chance we are going to have a major overhaul. you are going to have small adjustments in entitlements. various expenditures and benefits we get. the british are cutting $3 in spending for every $1 they raise. this is enough to get us through

the next year and a half or two years. this is not a grand bargain. this is the minibargain. it buys time so down the road, after the 2012 election, you can have the big pow-would yw. >> these are not serious people when it comes to the future of this country? they are talking about -- don't worry about your benefits. we have to tinker with the system to save the system. unfortunately, all the talks, all the negotiation over raising the debt ceiling is going on in the country with 9.1% unemployment. probably much higher than that. >> howard, if you heard, democrats and republicans on the show yesterday were so far apart, i don't know how they get anywhere by sunday. >> they have been out of touch

in this country for a long, long, long time. the last guy who had his pulse on the finger of america was bill clinton. that was a long time ago. washington is out of touch. you have to make progress and deal with the deficit. that is real. it's a step in the right direction. i think these are serious people. i think boehner is a great addition. obviously, i prefer pelosi, but i think boehner is doing a good job. this is his test. this is going to pass with republican and democrat votes. this is boehners big test. >> some see it as a historic opportunity for him. coming up, we have a lot to talk about. we are just getting started. eugene robinson explains how a little bit of imagination goes a long way. maria bartiromo will be on set.

first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> good friday morning. must see tv is watching the lift off today. 11:26 a.m. you can see the clouds in the background. it's not raining. the forecast does not look good from the morning to afternoon hours. right now, 70% chance it will be canceled because of inclimate weather. downpours along the mass pike. a thunderstorm along i-95 and southern connecticut. tropical downpours are likely anytime during the day. more widespread in the afternoon. the wet weather in florida, atlanta and new orleans. the weekend forecast, the highlight, southeast rain in the late afternoon. a beautiful weekend. way too hot in texas and

oklahoma. as we look at sunday, the only bad weather, minneapolis to nebraska, possibly colorado thunderstorms. overall, today is the bad day. the weekend looks nice for the eastern sea board. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] introducing the ultimate business phone -- the motorola expert from sprint. its powerful tools help you work faster and smarter so you can get back to playing "angry birds." it lets you access business forms on the go, fire off e-mails with the qwerty keypad, and work securely around the world so you can get back to playing "angry birds." it's the android-powered phone that mixes business with pleasure. so let's get our work done, america, so we can all get back to playing "angry birds." the motorola expert from sprint. trouble hearing on the phone? visit sprintrelay.com.

[ male announcer ] built like a volkswagen. the 2011 tiguan. [ grunts ]

>> i have a question for you guys. >> okay. >> are you ready? wa's your favorite lady gaga song. i like "bad romance" for the beat. she's unusual, but "born this way" is good. if you go to the end of the hbo special, the lady gaga special and watch her sing a capella, she can sing. interesting, talented, a little weird. >> lady gaga in the studio.

are you a fan? >> you know, i don't really know that much about lady gaga. i hate to say it. i have a lot of children, but i don't know much about lady gaga. >> bachmann won. >> if you are asked about gaga, keep it short. keep it short. >> i don't know what was more awkward, pawlenty or the reporters nodding for two minutes straight. >> i have no views on this. >> good answer. what he should have don. >> herman cain is selling himself as the common sense republican. the retired businessman who saved the godfather's pizza chain in the '80s says his inexperience is a plus. >> back to school sales kicking off earlier than usual.

last year, $55 billion was spent on back to school shopping. they think this year, it will be less. >> a man is being held in california accused of stealing a pablo picasso sketch. he took it off the wall of the san francisco art gallery. police tracked him down in napa and said the painting was missing the frame and packaged to be shipped. what is that? all right. time for politico on this friday morning. with us now, the chief white house correspondent, mike allen. how are you? >> happy friday, mika. >> it's friday. we need that. politico has a look at the cross roads gps. here is the ad. take a look. >> i have the belief that you

take care of your own self-and don't pass your debts on to your kids. >> really? you voted for reckless spending and how did you pay for it? billions in new taxes and trillions in crushing debt. >> you don't pass your debts on to your kids. >> sorry. no reckless spending, new taxes and blank checks. >> focusing on the disgust of washington overall for 2012? >> right. we can see in the ad why president obama is willing to take the good enough he's going to take from the left to get the deal done on spending. it's a potent issue. crs roads gps is going to run that ad for two weeks. you could close your eyes and name the senator it's aimed at. nelson of nebraska.

nelson of florida. brown of ohio. mccaskill of missouri. all these swing state senators are really paying the price for that. i love the ipad there at the beginning. the high-tech touch there. >> boy. >> what is the sense in the house? we talk a lot about speaker boehner and the tea party members. what they have to watch out for in terms of the vote. what about the democrats on this? more and more are articulating a deal. >> it's true. david rogers reported that the white house budget director went up to the capitol hill last night at the request of leader pelosi to try to brief them on it. they are very up happy about it.

calls what problem is imposing the breaking point. it's the end of the democratic party as we know it. president obama wants to go bold and get back the big middle. it's the reason he won big. he's willing to take that. you are right, he has the same problem to coral his democrats than speaker boehner is going to have. they were surprised at how much push back there was. they are united on a deal. they have to do a lot of shepherding. >> thank you. you lost me when you called mike barnicle a st oooge. up next, former pennsylvania governor ed rendell and new

details on the phone that's rocked the most popular newspaper. keep it here on "morning joe." ♪

[ doug ] i got to figure this out. i want to focus on innovation. but my data is doubling. my servers are maxed out. i need to think about something else when i run. [ male announcer ] with efficient i.t. solutions from dell, doug can shift up to 50% of his company's technology spend from operating costs to innovation. so his company runs better, and so does doug.

dell. the power to do more.

welcome back to "morning joe." 32 past the hour. we have the former governor of pennsylvania and ed rendell. he's going to be here to talk about the sexiest word in the english language. >> stooge? >> no. >> what is the word,ed? >> infrastructure. >> wow. >> all right. >> everyone peps up immediately. 6:32 a.m. >> and it's also the second most -- the first most important language, j-o-b-s.

jobs. >> troubled tabloid, news of the word says the paper will shut down over a phone hacking. it's accused of hacking into the cell phone messages of thousands of people ranging from families of soldiers killed in iraq and afghanistan to the relatives of the 2005 london transit bombings as well as the royal family. the editor has been arrested. david cameron has opened a public inquiry. for the first time in over a month, the yemen president spoke

out. he's gone over eight operations. his complexion was darker, hands and arms covered with bandages. facial hair was gone. he made no mention of when he would return to yemen and welcomes power sharing as long as it is within the country's constitutional frame work. diplomats said there was a slim chance he would return. tell me what this means and your reaction to what you saw in terms of his appearance. >> it was bizarre. it's part of a larger power. look at yemen and egypt. what you see are prolonged stalemates and situation that is looked helpful. the middle east is in for a long, hot summer.

a difficult winter and beyond. this is not going to be anything like a quick move to democracy and these countries. you can have large, ungoverned spaces where terrorists move in. it's a challenge for the united states. >> what is the largest threat to our national security? what is going on in afghanistan or what is occurring in yemen? >> pakistan is probably larger than any of them. afghanistan is a distraction. one thing about afghanistan, when you had the attacks on the hotel, it went back to vietnam. it's a reminder the people we are working with in afghanistan, given what they get out of pakistan, they will not be able to turn the corner. we continue to invest enormously there. >> howard dean? >> afghanistan, because of the

leadership there, no matter what we do, it doesn't matter. karzai is hopeless. i'm more optimistic. if you look at it over many, many years, tunisia is a bright star. egypt is not going to be a democracy in the way we know it. yemen is a huge problem. libya, who knows. i think there's progress that's been made here. i agree there's a lot of countries not making progress. syria, who knows what's going to happen. there will be real gains. >> i kind of agree with governor dean. in yemen, if we have what you describe, the potential for ungovernable state, it will become a petri dish of groups. they may be highly dysfunctional, but not failed. how does the u.s. not send some

kind of troop presence in there? i'm perplexed by it. if you have what looks like a failed state, how do we not send in forces to stabilize it? >> the kind of thing like in pakistan. go after people, use drones. you have to deal with the places we can't occupy. they might have be be september in to operate from time to time. this mornings must read opinion pages and infrastruct e infrastructure. we'll be right back. ♪

i used to see the puddles, but now i see the splash. ♪ i wanted love, i needed love ♪ ♪ most of all, most of all... ♪

welcome back to "morning joe." time for the must read opinion pages. we start with "the new york times" negotiating on a knife's edge. mr. obama, this is the paper's editorial and it says this. mr. obama might want to consider the advice of several constitutional scholars who say congress may not be able to put the govern in -- such a declaration would lead to litigation or attempts to impeachment. if republicans reach a deal or if democrats will not support it because it leans too heavily on the less fortunate, the constitutional option may look better than the recession option. people are worried about where the country is going.

>> j-o-b-s. it's where the country is headed. i was in europe. go to airports, take trains in other countries and it makes us appear to be a third world country when you come back here. governor rendell, one of the biggest things on the plate is infrastructure. >> we have to decide whether and how we are going to reauthorize our transportation bill. the chairman, who is a good guy and wants to do better is constrained by the antispending mania. he approved a bill for $230 billion. it's a $56 billion cut, not counting for inflation. it will reduce the quality of life, endanger public safety. worst of all, it's a job killer. republicans say they are for

creating jobs. $56 billion, the experts say, 25,000 jobs for every billion spent on infrastructure. this is a job killer. we ought to do what the senate proposed. they are bipartisan. they are leaning on doing a two-year bill at current spending levels with a slight adjustment for inflation. after the 2012 election, sitting down and having serious long-term discussions about what we are going to do about a six year or ten year plan to rebuild and revitalize our infrastructure and create jobs. guys in washington, you are not listening to the people. as mike says, jobs is the number one issue. this is the best creator of well-paying jobs. >> i think the governor is right. but it's a shocking thing. we have no plan. we have had no thinking about this. we want shovel ready projects.

it was absurd. the idea we don't have to think ahead, everything is there, we spend money. we never thought. actually, unfortunately, we are not going to have a plan. we are in the slashing mode right now. we are going to sign away our future. that's why this is a lousy agreement on the way. there's no thought to it. it's being done at the last moment behind closed doors. no economics to it. >> richard, then howard. go ahead, richard. >> you want to spend on infrastructure. not all is pork or wasteful. some is essential. you want to think about the transportation infrastructure and education. you need focused, torgted spending. it's important the spending cuts are smart. >> howard dean? >> this is what i want talking

act when i said touch who this group in washington are. the republicans are talking all things political. they had a chance to reform the way the budget is done. we need a capital budget. we don't have it. i bet ed has one, i certainly did. you set aside money for up fra structure. it restrains spending but guarantees invest in the in infrastructure. it's mindless stuff. it's not in touch with what america needs. >> dr. jeffry sachs. >> it has no targeting. it's slashing. it's the opposite of what's being discussed around the table. i say, again, there will be an agreement, but a lousy one. >> go ahead ed and howard. looking at you, you have both

run states and budgets. it must seem so frustrating that we are at this point. snlg all they are talking is politics. it's disheartening. >> it's important for the country's future for all the reasons the panel said. people will say governor, we agree with you. where are we getting the money. if we allow states to toll federal highways, adds another billion dollars. there's taxes to be paid offshore. let's assume we repaid that at 15%, less than half the current rate, that would take another $150 billion. businesses say we are going to create jobs but no guarantees. let's take the money and put it into infrastructure. with those things, we could take

the bill from $230 billion to almost $600 billion. that would make a huge difference in our infrastructure and huge different in jobs created and a huge revifl. seasoning you know what's depressing are the politics today. former governors of vermont and pennsylvania, you have to make decisions on a daily basis. your decisions affect people's lives every day. in washington, they go around, run to the cable networks to get on for three or forminutes at a time, then say say yeah or nee. they are not talking fire hydrants. it is depressing. term limits. get them out of there. >> still ahead, we bring in ezra klein. also, home run derby last night

at fenway park plus jeter watch at yankee stadium. sports is next. ♪ ♪ hey, dad, you think i could drive? i'll tell you what -- when we stop to fill it up. ♪ ♪ [ son ] you realize, it's gotta run out sometime. [ male announcer ] jetta tdi clean diesel. the turbo that gets 42 miles per gallon. ♪

it's schwab at your fingertips wherever, whenever you want. one log in lets you monitor all of your balances and transfer between accounts, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates. and execute trades anywhere and anytime the inspiration hits you. even deposit checks right from your phone. just take a picture, hit deposit and you're done. open an account today and put schwab mobile to work for you. years ago, my mother taught me. and over the years, i've taught my family. we've created so much here together. so when my doctor said that over those years my high cholesterol was contributing to plaque buildup in my arteries, i listened.

and that's why i'm fighting my cholesterol with crestor. [ male announcer ] when diet and exercise alone aren't enough, adding crestor does more than lower bad cholesterol and raise the good. crestor is also proven to slow plaque buildup in arteries. crestor is not right for everyone -- like people with liver disease or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. simple blood tests will check for liver problems. tell your doctor about other medicines you are taking or if you have muscle pain or weakness. that could be a sign of serious side effects. ask your doctor about plaque build up. and if crestor is right for you. [ woman ] i love what we've created here together. [ male announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astra-zeneca may be able to help. our girl's an architect. our boy's a genius. we are awesome parents! biddly-boop. [ male announcer ] if you find a lower rate on a room you've booked, we won't just match it. we'll give you $50 towards your next trip. [ gnome ] it's go time.

sports highlights in a minute. there was a terrible story last night at the rangers ballpark in arlington, texas. a man at the game with his young son died after he fell over a railing and landed on concrete 20 feet below. he was reaching for a ball a player tossed up in his direction. nolan ryan said we are deeply saddened to learn the man who fell died. our thoughts and prayers are with his family. his identity has not been released. a texas newspaper identifies him as a local firefighter. the accident came a year and a day after another fan fell from the second deck and was severely

injured. baseball scores are meaningless after a story like that. >> it is horrific. >> so, the most important thing that happened in baseball last night is obviously the red sox won. they beat the orioles. governor rendell, when he was governor of pennsylvania, the question among many people, governor, is where did you spend more time, phillies games or actually in the state capital? there's some investigation in that. >> we need to tally the numbers. what about the phillies, governor? in a short series, they are going to be short with the pitching staff. >> they have to hit better. the braves are coming on. in a short series, everybody's got good pitches. >> last night, the indians hosting the blue jays.

a scary moment in the second. chisenhall. right off the face from villanueva. he left the game. he's going to be checked out for a concussion. batista, 29th home run of the season. 4-zip, blue jays. the indians come to life. cabrera, singles to left. 4-1, indians. travis comes up to the plate. boom! cleveland stays. come on travis. what are you doing? all right. here is travis. he's going to get it done. there he is. back in the game. he's back. cleveland, staged a game and a half up from detroit.

the american league east, the red sox, 3-1 count. boom, up over the wall. lands out in the parking lot. red sox up, 3-2. fifth run innings. gonzalez, best hitter in the major leagues. 76th rbi. seventh inning, poured on. bang. center field bleachers. next hitter, bang! right field. next hitter, bang! left field low. back-to-back-to-back home runs. saved by drew who always came through with nothing. basher was there enjoying the game. looking for a job, i guess. beating the orr y yols, 10-4. tampa bay rays steps in. boom! double to left center.

the captain is two hits away from 3,000. jay-z was at the game. henry kissinger was at the game watching the captain. looks like he's staying and sleeping overnight there. upton unloads. two-run shot. braves win, 5-1. braves win. the yankees are now a half game behind the red sox. finally, good news for coy boys receiver after a wedding proposal gone wrong. >> what? >> rewind to spring. he decided to propose to his girlfriend. she's a former miss texas beauty queen. his method was slightly unconventional. he sent the ring in the mail with a prerecorded message. she kept the $76,000 ring.

he asked for it back. he filed a lawsuit to get it back. we are happy to report roy has the ring back -- >> but not the girl. >> she gave the ring back. >> hold on a second. why accept a wedding proposal that comes in the mail? >> that is the question. >> what is this, publisher's clearinghouse? she should have kept the ring -- who would give the ring back. >> send a yes or no back by fedex. >> ed, you wouldn't do that, would you? >> absolutely not. >> take the money and apply it to the deficit. >> dr. howard dean and ed rendell, thank you very much. a big hour ahead. ezra klein, eugene robinson and many more. more "morning joe" when we return. almost tastes like one of jack's cereals.

fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one.

♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ look at that car, well, it goes fast ♪ ♪ givin' my dad a heart attack ♪ [ friend ] that is so awesome. ♪ i love my car [ engine revving ] [ male announcer ] that first chevy, yea, it gets under your skin. ♪

simpson commission gave an excellent report. that doesn't mean i agree with everything in there nor do i expect everybody to agree with it. they have a two and a half to one spending cuts to revenues ratio. they believe in a bipartisan

factor. it's not a ratio. the wealthiest people in america are getting a big tax break and the most vulnerable people in america are asked to pay the bill. it's not an american value. it's not the values we share or a program we would support. >> a lot to get to this morning. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and jeffry sachs are still with us. we have eric baits and columnist for "the washington post" and msnbc contributor, ezra klein. he'll be back on at 3:00 today. how did it go? >> they haven't locked me out yet. >> congratulations. a lot to get to. budget negotiations. news of the world, gone. axed. what does that mean? obesity rate up 19% in 17

states. first, let's get to afghanistan. nato is admitting an air strike accidentally killed several women and children in afghanistan. according to reports the raid was aimed at insurgents in a remote corner of the country. the coalition says a similar investigation is under way. nato and afghan officials are looking into accusations that civilians were hit that killed a militant that planted a roadside bomb. it comes as mullen says he believes pakistan's government ordered the killing of shahzad. he may have been killed for reporting on links to agencies and muslim extremists. in a briefing, he says it was sanctioned by the government. i have not disabused the report.

the government knew about this. first the air strikes and the civilian deaths. this is something we have seen before. at this point, with the discussion about afghanistan, you brought up a good point about the millionaires not affected by any. they won't be affected by afghanistan. a lot of people in this country. >> this is another case maker where the american people are clear, the huge majority wants us out. just get out. they understand there's no success in this. but the people around the table and the secret negotiations don't listen to the american people anymore. >> eric? >> we have had drone strikes all along. we fought the war at arm's length. a lot of strengths we do, we do from a distance. you are going to make mistakes if you do that. the death toll has been terrible. >> plays into the cost.

there's a role on civilians and many people as well. as we look at the budget, how do we not look at afghanistan? >> it's a great question. >> it's not taken seriously. >> let's move on to the budget. no budget deal weeks away. doesn't sound like lawmakers are expected to work all weekend on a debt ceiling deal. president obama says he will meet with congressional leaders on sunday. it follows with his meeting with the group yesterday. he made a short statement in the white house briefing room yesterday. he called the talks constrictive. he says both parties have a way to go. >> there's going to be pain involved politically on all sides. our biggest obligation is to make sure we are doing the right thing by the american people, creating an environment to grow the economy and make sure more

and more people are being put back to work. >> meanwhile, john boehner is telling republicans the odds of reaching a deal are 50/50. the speaker acknowledged revenue increases could be part of an agreement. they are standing firm on their main priorities. >> everything is on the table except raising taxes on the american people. >> we, as republicans are not -- >> nancy pelosi expected to meet privately with president obama today. one issue likely to come up, entitlement reform. the president is proposing reductions to medicare and social security. yesterday, pelosi expressed alarm at the proposal. >> we do not support cuts in benefits on social security and medicare. any discussion of medicare or

social security should be on its own table. do not consider social security a piggy bank for tax cuts. we are not going to balance the budget on the backs of american seniors and people with disabilities. >> you said we are going have a deal, but not a good one. when you hear speaker boehner say it's 50/50 then you hear nancy pelosi, is it possible there's not a deal? >> there will be a deal. when you speak to the congressional offices of the democrats, they have no idea what is dpoung on. they are not partied by this. this is a deal by obama and the republicans like the deal struck in november. the democrats will swallow it. in the end they are going to do what congresswoman pelosi said would not be done. they are going to cut benefits

for the poorest people. we are going to see cuts in social security because of the non-indexing of the cost of living. we are going to freeze spending in areas where we would create jobs. it's going to be a lousy deal, it's not operating with the democrats. that's what they are telling the president. >> is that quha you are hearing, ezra? >> basically, it's true. >> it's depressing. >> i don't know when you are going to get a deal. i'm listening to 50/50 in the next 48 hours or not at all. what has changed in the last week where the commission couldn't get anywhere near a $4 trillion deal. after both parties are away from each other, after cantor took

revenues off the table, not just rate increases but revenues, which part of the deal cracked such that they will be able to come to the other side. i can't identity where it's happened. >> the president put social security on the table. amazing. >> this is the thing. i can't figure out where he did. talk to the white house, he says that overshot the run way. would i be shocked to see cpi spakt, that does cut benefits. people should remember it. that was with cantor and kyle that he walked out of. it was on the table then. it's not new new. they walked out of the talks. i took social security and medicare and medicaid to show how much they are putting on the table. when i talked with them, i

couldn't find anything new. >> entitlement reforms in some way shape or form and not any tax revenue enhancers. i would like to think the president wouldn't go that far. it's why the democrats are squawking. there's a concern obama is giving away more than he is getting. it's a 3-1 ratio. still, it's not enough for republicans. one of the most interesting things to me, everybody was offered the option. almost everybody went for the $4 trillion cut exct eric cantor. that's how politically driven this is for the republicans. even if you could get $2 trillion more in cuts for a little bit of tax reform, they

won't do it. they aren't interested in cutting the budget or the dead. >> you could look at it that way. argue that feeling. >> they will take some of these tax benefits or expenditures and raise revenues. what they won't do is change the tax rates. that's the headline number. when they say we don't accept tax increases, they are not saying we won't raise the ledger. we really need to clarify this. >> what obama has done is say that's fine. i'll go with you on that. that's why i think there's going to be a deal. he compromises. almost all to the republican side. then the democrats have no place to run. he thinks this is loose

calculation that captures the center. it's amazingly bad public policy. >> if you could raise that money through cutting loopholes, that would be fine. what's struck me is republicans stopped making that distinction. he said any cuts to loopholes have to be offset with tax cuts elsewhere. >> i think it's a bargaining position. >> what i think is interesting, the point with the split between can tor and boehner. can cantor bring his people? whep you tut loob holes, it's a tax increase. if boehner loses people, cantor walked out and said if you want a tax increase, you sign for it, buddy. >> you are right. what's going to happen, it's going to be on the cutting side. the poor are going to suffer. people living on social security

are going to suffer. then they are going to say it's agony, agony, agony. >> a little bit of revenue increase, they are dpoung to say it's okay. >> obama had a trillion in tax cuts. they could do that fine. this is what the republicans have been smart about. not making it how many tax increases, any will be looked at as a compromise even if it's a 5-1 split or 7-1 split as you might have in the end. >> it's a bad deal but different from no tax increases. >> the president negotiates with himself constantly. >> he took single bay off. >> he doesn't keep his most

extreme. geithner is negotiating a position of weakness. >> politically, if either side folds on taxes, isn't it kind of at that point over for them politically? i don't understand how the president lets this opportunity go by, again. >> the republicans will get what they want and campaign on. we didn't raise tax rates on the american people. they will get that position. the president's calculation is the one that is really, really calling the shots. >> this is to capture that small center of independents that are, in his view, the swing votes and the democrats in the end. it's my guess to the thinking. >> it's like 1996 trying to position yourself as the most reasonable party going into the

election. it's trying to prepare to be more reasonable. they are offering bigger cuts. they are going to come out and look like they are willing to do the work necessary. this would be a good deal for obama to strike. people remember the tax deal. folks on the left hated that. people love compromise. they love seeing the president look like the adult in the room. coming up, do you have anything to say? >> i have to tell you the truth. >> yeah, i know. >> i am preoccupied with the lead story of the hour. the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff saying pakistan, our ally is a killer nation, we are at war fighting on behalf of

karzai, a corrupt guy leading afghanistan, less than 1% of the people in this country are invested in the war. dpamlys here at home suffering and the clowns in washington can't get a debt ceiling done when we are at war? come on. former new york governor george pa ta ki will join the set. how he weighs in on the debate. also eugene robinson and maria bart row ma. bill karins has a look at the forecast. >> the weekend looks better. boston, south of there, strong thunderstorms. a thunderstorm warning. here on the radar, it's around franklin, mass.

it may clip cape cod here. >> it ing dpo continue all day long. on and off storms. the southeast, going to try to take off in four hours. there's a lot of rain out there. they don't like to fly through the colloids. i'm giving it a 20% chance of lifting off. you may have to wit until it gets worse. the southeast deals with the wet weather. sunday is hot in dallas at 100. we are going to look for a beautiful day. hope you enjoy your plans. [ grunts ]

[ male announcer ] built like a volkswagen. the 2011 tiguan. [ grunts ] even if you think your mattresses is just fine, ask me what it's like to get your best night's sleep every night. why not talk to someone who's sleeping on the most highly recommended bed in america.™ it's not a sealy or a simmons or a serta. ask me about my tempur-pedic. ask me how fast i fall asleep. these are actual tempur-pedic owners. ask someone you know. try your friends on facebook. you'll hear it all. unedited. ask me how it feels after 10 years. just ask me. there are over 4 million tempur-pedic owners, and they're more satisfied than owners of any traditional mattress brand. ask me why someone who's never had an ache or a pain is in love with this bed.

start asking real owners. find out what you've been missing. right now, you can buy a tempur-pedic mattress set and save up to $200. plus, take advantage of our 4 years special financing. visit tempurpedic.com for full details on our mattress set savings event and 4 years special financing. don't wait-offer ends soon. visit tempurpedic.com now.

senator from texas, i just

wondering if the view you might have that we have been terribly overworked this week. i understand that we canceled our fourth of july recess in order to get back here to get to work and do the people's business. is it correct that was the second vote we have taken, one instruction of the sergeant arms and this another highly controversial issue that was taken up. so, i guess my question, senator from texas, has this week been a worthwhile expenditure of the taxpayers. >> senator john mccain mocking the work schedule. joining us now from washington, chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd.

a new round of meetings on sunday. are they going to get it done? >> if a big deal gets done, we are going to hear the outlines of a frame work and something large some time sunday or monday. if it comes together, it's going to come together fast. it's what i have been told by both sides whether at the white house, on capitol hill among republicans. what's going on now is temperature taking on each side. you have the president meeting with nancy pelosi. try to suede her on the social security stuff. you have john boehner meeting with senator republicans sounding optimistic yesterday afternoon. at the same time, a plit between boehner and cantor and beliefs of what can get through. how many republicans would support a large deal that includes a trillion dollars in tax revenue.

that's what's going on. >> the split is between boehner and cantor. also the president and pelosi? >> i think that's fair to say. i think it's fair to say on what the -- on sort of how much give there is for instance on the left and how much give there is on the right when it comes to taxes. >> it's boehner and obama being the most aggressive in the room and are acting the most optimistic now. >> ezra? >> i agree with everything chuck said. it's right. we don't know the content. we hear $1 trillion in revenue. that's a comprehensive reform overhaul. we are not doing it yet. it's the main concern, you cannot -- >> what do we no about the cuts. you have dr. sachs saying the

cuts are to the poorest americans. is that true or are there different ways to slice it? >> we are going to have provider cuts. it's going to hurt folks. i don't think there's too much on medicaid. there's a proposal called blended rate. it's a bad proposal. medicare, i don't think it's going to be too big of a worry. in social security, watch for them to change the inflation. it cuts benefits and social security that economists consider an increase. it also raises taxes because it moves people into higher tax rates more quickly. >> ezra, the big brain. >> one other thing i wanted to say, the deal that will get announced is target. we are going to find trillion in

tax revenues. we are going to do it over six months. we are going to find 2.5 trillion in cuts. if they come out with something like that, they all know you can't find this trillion dollars in tax ref knew in two weeks. they have to agree on the per am ters. >> what i term the low level of whining among some house democrats that oh the white house isn't talking to us. they are doing this all by themselves, they are not keeping us posted or up to date. how much of a threat is that to the pass onlg of this? >> depends on the votes they need. i would argue that this time, they had a beef six months ago and three months ago. the white house was not really

updating house democrats as well. the white house has been more aggressive in reaching out. nancy pelosi wasn't in the room during the cr in many of those meetings. it's a little different this time. >> this is the world's greatest chief of staff? >> oh, lordy. >> you know, it is interesting to me. somebody tweeted me. why don't we ever hear from bill daley. i said exactly. he does it dimptly. i's not to say one is better than the other. his style is different than rahm. rahm would be more addressive about what is going on and how the negotiations are going. this is not bill daley's style. we'll see if this is the right style for this moment. >> eric bates? >> the white house was trying to

cutback. they are going there for the first time and putting it on the table. that's the way you get, kind of, you know, deeper cuts and sweeping changes over time. it starts in a small way like we are just tinkering with the calculation. i's always been off the board, now it's on the board for the third time, i think where we -- there are things that can be done that make sense and don't impact people today or for a long time. >> how much does social security need to be reformed. >> that's the question. should that social security take the brunt for it? >> okay. chuck who do you have coming up on "the daily rundown"?

>> chris van hollen. the white house advising net, mark zandy. we'll talk the jobs numbers which you will have at 8:30. >> thank you very much. see you at 9:00 eastern time here on msnbc. coming up, maria bartiromo are here. [ female announcer ] the healing power of touch can be even more powerful, with precise pain relieving cream. it blocks pain signals fast for relief precisely where you need it most. precise. only from the makers of tylenol.

32 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." a dramatic end for the top selling but troubled tabloid. it's on the front page of every paper in britain. the paper will shutdown on sunday. a controversy over a phone hacking scandal. it's accused of hacking into cell phones of thousands of people ranging from people in iraq and afghanistan to the 2005 bombings as well as the royal family. the former editor has been arrested in connection with the scandal. he's the former communications chief for prime minister david cameron.

he called for new regulations of the press. paris prosecutors opening a preliminary investigation into sexual assault accusations against dominique strauss-kahn. there's a complaint he raped a woman in 2003. it will take months, if not years and may result in a trial. different sex assault charges in new york city after a hotel maid claims he attacked her in may. the questions about the accusers credibility punched holes in the case there. strauss-kahn was released and they have asked the d.a. to dismiss the case. a government shutdown putting thousands out of work in minnesota is costing the state millions of dollars. according to the chicago sun times, minnesota could lose tens of millions o month.

a million bucks a week from camping fees, gift shop and concession sales and another $1.25 million in lottery sales. the stand off is now entering the eighth straight day. a key ratings agency downgraded the debt. an independent panel created by walter mondale is now calling for spending cuts and tax increases to end minnesota's budget crisis. before we go, eric baits, thank you very much. what do you have coming up in the next "rolling stone"? >> now, we have a piece you have already talked about by al goran climate change as well as a piece that didn't get quite as much attention on amanda knox. >> oh, an update on that.

>> thanks for coming in this morning. up next, george pataki and ewe neen robinson. more on "morning joe." [ bird chirping ] ♪ [ doug ] i got to figure this out. ♪

[ dr. ling ] i want to spend more time with my patients. [ jim ] i need to build a new app for the sales team in beijing. [ mrs. davis ] i need to make science as exciting as a video game. ♪ [ jim ] i need to push out a software upgrade. [ dr. ling ] review ms. cooper's history. [ doug ] i need to cut i.t. costs. [ mrs. davis ] i need to find a way to break through. [ jim ] i need to see my family while they're still awake. [ dr. ling ] see if the blood work is ready. [ doug ] i need to think about something else when i run. ♪ [ male announcer ] every day, we set out to do more than the day before. at dell, everything we do, from solutions to services, gives you the power to do just that. ♪ so i.t. professionals can be more productive... business leaders, more innovative... doctors can be more connected to patients... and teachers have the power to make a difference. dell. the power to do more. and teachers have the power to make a difference. every day you live with the pain of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis could be another day you're living with joint damage.

help stop the damage before it stops you by asking your rheumatologist about humira. for many adult patients with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis humira has been proven to help relieve pain and stop joint damage. humira's use in patients with ra has been evaluated in multiple studies during the past 14 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events can occur such as, infections, lymphoma or other types of cancer, blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b,

are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. make today the day you talk to your rheumatologist. and ask how you can defend against and help stop further joint damage with humira. we keep spending what we are spending now, even in illinois. we spent more on the new budget. >> you have to figure it out. >> we are fighting over a growth rate of spending. if not now, when? now is the time. now, now, now. >> now is the time -- >> i don't believe in compromise on spending. there's no compromise.

>> rick -- >> stop spending. live within your means. if we keep spending we are going to hit something and it's going to bleed. taxpayers for more money until you give us a budget. it's how long do you think that bullet is going to take before it comes out of the revolver. >> i just got very tired. that was exhausting. joining us now, the former republican governor, george pataki and the host of "closing bell" maria ba. let's all prognosticate first on the sunday meeting. governor, do you think there's going to be a deal? >> i think there has to be a deal. i just hope the republicans hold tough on taxes. the problem is not that we need to raise taxes on those trying to raise jobs.

we need to undo the spending binge we have seen in the last two and a half years. i think the president needs a deal. he can't have a government shutdown. he can't have the country threatening default. republicans should stick to their guns. i think we can get a lot of entitlement reform and take a step forward. >> eugene, i'll get to you. maria? >> we are going to have a deal at some point. i don't know if it will be sunday. >> before august 2nd? >> i doubt we will go to august 2nd. where the bills are and who gets paid first is under discretion of the treasury secretary. they will decide who gets paid. the debtors or social security rezip yents. we understand what america owes and to whom. >> eugene robinson, we are an

hour away from the jobs numbers, do you think first of all, i'm going to go out on a limb and assume you disagree with governor pataki. just a tad bit on what the deal would be. >> what would give you that idea? >> maybe the piece in "the washington post." >> i do disagree. i don't disagree in my optimism that there be a deal. i certainly hope there's a deal because it would be disastrous if there's not. look, you can't close this on the revenue side. the spending binge over the last two and a half years. it began when we started two wars that we didn't want to pay for. we doubled pentagon spending since 2002. the spending binge is older than the obama administration, certainly. you have to look at the revenue side as well as the cuts and you

have to phase the stuff in. if you cut too much now, you depress a struggling economy. struggling to recover. i think it's a bad idea to cut too much now. >> governor, let me ask you a question. there's a certain wing of the republican party that claims that the bush tax cuts that if you go back to the tax rate prior to the bush tax cut, it's a tax increase. is that your view? >> yes, it is. >> how can it be? >> we have tax rates now. the highest marginal rate is 35%. it goes to 38.6%. when you pay more in taxes it's an increase. it's simple. the rate is here. it's going to go to there. you are saying well, it used to be there. it's not an increase. it doesn't make sense. >> like food sales, one day only milk is $3 --

>> it wasn't one day only. it was a ten-year law. >> i understand that. reverting back to a tax rate that existed that people paid into, calling it a tax increase, it's politics at its worst. >> it's not at all. it's clearly a tax increase. saying we have to raise taxes on small business people -- >> i'm not saying that. >> it's what you would be doing. one of the things missing here completely is the president had his own bipartisan commission. $4 trillion in deficit reduction measures. they lowered the tax rate and the corporate rate to 22% and the personal rate to 23%. yes, there were revenue raises by closing loopholes, but it made it a competitive economy. we have to reduce spending and grow the economy. >> the other issue, even if you are talking raising tax rates on the highest earners, the revenue

is not enough to make a dent. medicare, medicaid and social security are the tough calls but they have to be made. >> gene, is it the debt or unemployment as a bigger issue? >> unemployment. unemployment is the biggest issue. ask the american people. it's what people have told, pollsters have told, voters have told candidates they care about now. it's a crisis in this country. it will be tragic if we do something that makes the unemployment picture worst. >> to say it's the debt or jobs is not the right choice. the debt is one of the reasons we don't have jobs. if you are a small business person and looking at default and $14 trillion in debt. what is going to happen in our

economy. let's see if the government can get their act together and cut spending to within its means. if that happened, i think we would see the growth we need to create those jobs. they are related. >> break the news. >> there are a lot of people running. >> what do you think of the republican views? >> there are well qualified people that would be better than the current president. >> like -- >> tim pawlenty, michelle bachmann, mitt romney, others. i think you have a lot of talented people out there. it's easy to sit on the sideline and criticize. when you are at a desk, you are not accountable or wrong. they are out fighting the fight. maybe they are not the one i'm saying this is the right person. i am still thinking myself, mike. >> as chairman of no american

debt, i would like to read eugene's proposal in terms of tackling it. i'll read from your piece. >> thank you. >> well, we could begin by recognizing spending is too great, revenue is too meager. we should tax at 20% gdp. debt reduction ought to include spending cuts and revenue increases in equal measure. there's a way to eliminate the strangling deficits with fairness and an eye to a brighter future. it's the progressive way. is there an issue of fairness and a moral issue as we look at the divide that is developing in our country on a number of levels whether people serving to people making the regular typical american salary versus the very, very rich. we are looking at a social

divide. do you think it's something to consider? >> absolutely. i think there's an issue of fairness. we are unfair to the people who can't get a job. they are clobbered by obama care. it's something that was done in the name of social equality. young people are going to be facing enormous debt they had nothing to do to incur. whether or not they get the entitlements is a question of social justice. have a society that creates more opportunity particularly for young people. yes, eugene, i agree with you. revenue has to be part of the equation. the way you get revenue is by expanding the private sector economy. when people are working, they are paying taxes and contributing to government revenues. i faced the same thing when i was governor. we reduced the size of the government and cut taxes. mika, i don't mean to get you

upset so early in the morning, we cut taxes on the rich. people who make 250 -- >> we disagree. >> you know what happened? we have more jobs and government revenue because they paid taxes instead of leaving the state. >> they spent the money. when you allow people to keep their money, they spend it. what the governor is saying is what i say. businesses today are handicapped. they are not adding new heads to the payroll because they are uncertain. they are saying what's going on with the debt ceiling. are my fees going to go higher? a lot of people feel it is way too expensive. if you look at the waivers, there are 1,000 companies that have gotten waivers for the health care law. >> defend yourself. >> i will say one thing about uncertainty. small business owners, large business owners, maria, i think

you agree, they would hire and expand if they had customers. >> it's a vicious cycle, i agree with you. >> it is insanity for us right now to do anything that will further cut demand. that, in fact, will make there be fewer customers. when we talk about kcuts, when e talk slashing and spending, keep in mind it's a classical component of economic activity anywhere. unless you don't believe the theory, it's part of it. >> i love eugene. >> who doesn't. >> take a look at canada. canada and the u.s. had unemployment figures that tracked themselves. when we borrowed a trillion dollars for the stimulus, our unemployment kept going up.

we are over 9%. canada7%. they haven't had stimulus, massive deficits, keynesian economics. they've grown the private sector economy. that's what we have to do here. >> they found a whole lot of oil in dan ccanada to buoy the econ >> to be fair, we're getting the unemployment numbers in a few minutes. >> we're expecting better jobs than may. 125,000 jobs is expected, 9.1% unemployment rate is expected to stay. you have to feel it's a victory it isn't going up. there's some job creation in manufacturing, in energy it. but we really, when you're looking at recoveries, historical recoveries, we really should be at a much stronger point in the recovery at this point in the cycle. >> and have millions more jobs. >> absolutely. >> let me ask you about the jobs factor, maria. on wall street you get these huge countries, not talking about small business.

job growth there fuels the country and the economy. huge countries, 200,000, 300,000 employees, since 2008 when the economy takes a dip, they slash employment, 10,000, 15,000, and they're functioning pretty well. who's to say they're going to say, you know something? we're doing okay even with the job cuts and they don't hire? >> well, the beauty of america is the will strength in productivity. over decades and decades productivity has been strong. technology has enabled it. you're right, if a company is doing something cheap every in india or somewhere else, they're going to do it. that's a fact. what we want in this country are the skilled jobs with education. >> you know, you just popped one of the huge issues in this country right now. it's people from places like india, china who come here for education, four, six years, master's degree and they can't stay here. >> we won't let them stay. that's immigration law. >> we agree. >> another issue the administration is wrangling with

even more so than the money from corporations come back to america. the fact that large corporations are opening r & d facilities in brazil, china, india and are sending their people to manage them. we're not only not getting the money because of taxes but we're spend sending our best talent overseas. >> governor pataki, marimaria, t conversation. gene, thank you as well. we'll be right back with "morning joe."

i just completed a meeting with all the convict gregs ar l al leaders from both parties and i have to say that i thought it was a very constructive meeting. people were frank. we discussed the various options available to us. everybody reconfirmed the importance of completing our work and raising the debt limit ceiling so the full faith and credit of the united states of america is not impaired. i will reconvene congressional leaders here on sunday with the expectation that at that point the parties will at least know where each other's bottom lines

are and we'll hopefully be in a position to then start engaging in the hard bargaining necessary to get a deal done. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. as you take a live look at new york city on this friday morning. back with us on set, we have mike barnicle, dr. are jeffrey saks, dan seenor, richard hos and in washington former governor howard dean. i want to bring this up because it plays into the budget, i'm sorry. where's my obesity story in don't roll your eyes barnicle. >> i just saw a thing about a 20-pound cat. >> no, that's not what i'm talking about. that's stupid, okay? this is a study -- >> that's going to be the standard. >> bloomberg news, obesity rates rise at least had 90% in 17 states since 1995. this is incredible. each of these states look at how much is spent on obesity related

illnesseses, medicare, medicaid spend 20% of their budget on obesity related illness and smoking. >> it's become a bigger story. this september in new york for the first time ever governments are going to talk about what are noncommunicable diseases and obesity and lifestyle diseases have now become the biggest drivers of hechblg care costs not just in this country but around the world. >> obviously impacts our national security. this isn't a stupid equation anymore. it's the bottom line. >> it's real. whether it's obesity, heart disease, smoking, alcohol related. this increasingly much more than infectious disease -- >> you can go state by state, city by city, no recess, no physical education, and the vending machines in the schools. >> but the food in general. we can talk about that, dr. saks, the way americans eat. but if i can just say, mississippi is at 34.4%.

we're talking about not just a little bit overweight. we're talking about obese. >> yeah. if you look at how countries rank the united states is completely off the charts. we have one-third of americans obese, another one-third overweight, and there's no other place on the planet like it, actually. >> no. >> and it's our fast food industry to a large extent. >> absolutely. howard dean, though, when you look at this and the fight in washington, shouldn't the solutioni solutioning be all-encompassing? >> i think obesity is also environment related. not just fast food but in this incredibly environment in the 21st century i think the peptide composition of people has changed. i think some really interesting unpubli unpublished research that indicates that it might be simply big-time peptide disorders which are environmentally related. so we don't really know -- i don't think this is as simple as

trying to pass by the kentucky fried chicken outlet without going in. this is a really serious medical problem and i think we need to know a lot more about it before we really are figure out how to treat it right. >> not that i disagree with you, governor, but i think sometimes we reach for more complex reasons when the simpler reasons are right in front of us. the tv remote control clicker and video games, this nation is filled with kids from 8 to 18 who never get off the couch. they play -- look at the advertisements for these real to life video games we have all around us. that's all they play. they don't go out and play catch. they don't go out and run down the block to get a quart of milk for their parents. >> i think that's true. i diplomat mean to say it hadding to to do that that. but i think it's going to turn out to be a very are complex set of problems which is going to defy easy political solutions. >> we'll move on to the budget

now, although i think this should be port part of it. it talks about nine of the top ten states in the south, mississippi, alabama, west virginia, those states also lead the nation in diabetes and high blood pressure. it's obviously to me when we talk about haej hedge care, medicaid, all these cuts we're looking at a country already weakened by what is an epidemic. let's go to washington with the august 2nd deadline just weeks away, lawmakers are preparing to work over the weekend on a possible deal on the debt ceiling. president obama says he and congressional leaders will re e reconvene sunday, after his meeting with those leaders yesterday, making a short statement yesterday, the president called the talks constructive but says both prartys still have a lot of work to do. >> i want to emphasize that nothing is agreed to until everything's agreed to, and the parties are still far apart on a

wide range of issues. but, again, i thought that all of the leaders here came in a spirit of compromise and a spirit of wanting to solve problems. everybody acknowledged that there's going to be pain involved politically on all sides, but our biggest obligation is to make sure that we're doing the right thing by the american people, creating an environment in which we can grow the economy and make sure that more and more people are being put back to work. >> meanwhile, house speaker john boehner is telling fellow republicans that the odds of reaching a deal on the debt limit are 50/50. boehner acknowledged revenue increases could be part of an agreement but the speaker and majority leader eric cantor are are standing firm on their main priority in negotiations. >> everything is on the table except raising taxes on the american people. >> we as republicans are not going to support tax increases.

it is counterintuitive to think that you can raise taxes in a sputtering economy. >> nancy pelosi -- just listen up, barnicle. nancy pelosi, listen to exactly what she says here before you react, okay? expected to meet privately with president obama today to discuss raising the debt ceiling. one issue that is likely to come up is entitlement reform. president obama is proposing significant reductions to medicare and social security, something white house press secretary jay carney says is not news. but yesterday house democrats expressed alarm at the proposal. >> we do not support cuts in benefits on the social security and medicarmedicare. any discussion of medicare or social security should be on its own table. we do not consider social security a piggy bank for giving tax cuts to the wealthiest people in our country. we are not going to balance the budget on the backs of america's

seniors, women and people with disabilities. >> i'm sorry, i think that's fair. if we're not talking about tax cuts or the wealthy giving back a little bit in our society and i am sorry it's not going to impact jobs to make certain tax revenue enhancers put in place, why should we make cuts to medicare, medicaid and social security, even though they do need to be regrouped a little bit and do need to be part of the solution? anyone disagree? >> the reason you have to make cuts to the entitlements, you rob banks, that's where the money is, you have to go to entitlements. just to be clear, no one is talking about balancing the budget on the back of social securi security. what's on the table is adjusting the cost of living adjustments made to the social security so we're talking about rate of increase of future benefits. so we won't have seniors starving just because -- >> of course not. but why should we even touch it unless the other side is going to give a little, too. >> fair enough the i think what you're seeing is the

prepositioning, skirmishing, everybody is talking about what's going to be on and everything is conditional. as the president said, nothing agreed unless everything agreed. so the issue is, what's going to be the mix? >> but it sounded like based on the president's statement and what boehner said yesterday that it they're pretty far along. what the president said read like a negotiated statement, that he didn't -- he it was not a bringsmanship statement. it was probably agreed upon falling that meeting they had, the exact language he would use. which means these secret negotiations will carry on through the weekend. if they come out of those meetings with some sort of deal that as richard said involves changes to the formula but not real cuts but the democratic caucus or large number of the democratic caucus react revolt and republicans revolt to any changes to the tax code they view as a tax increase, plus what a lot of people aren't focustion on, the cuts on the defense budget, i think you could have this whole thing blow up very quickly.

the implications could be calamitous. no one has truly tested and it's impossible to test because you don't know if it's going to happen until it happens is if we wake up one mormg and headlines in hundreds of newspapers across the world saying, u.s. government -- deal blows up, members of congress from both parties revolt, u.s. defaults. that could have cascading effects and that i think is the biggest risk with doing all of these negotiations behind closed doors with virtually no transparency. >> howard dean? i've got to disagree with that. first of all, i think that headline is incredibly unlikely. everybody knows what the stakes are. the backup position is we're going to just pass a bill that's going to last us six months and so forth. these trucks are not going to fail. the debt ceiling is going to be raised one way or another. now, here's the optimistic piece of this. i think there is an agreement here and we talked about it it

on this show shortly after the election, the grand bargain. i think you will see cuts in dense, you will see as richard said restraint on entitlements. i don't think you'll see drastic reforms like ryan was talking about, but you'll see restrain on growth. you don't even have to cut payments. i think you're going to see some quote, unquote, revenue increases and it will be in the form of getting rid of the subsidies for oil companies and things like that. this is a grand bargaining, i think obama is actually doing a great job i have to say trying to reach a grand bargain instead of settling for a stopgap measure. s so i think there's a better than 50/50 chance we'll get a grand bargain, virtually a zero chance we won't raise the debt ceiling. >> there's one more poll to show by the pew research center showing most americans don't want benefits cut from medicare and medicaid, of course. but 60% of those surveyed said it's most important the programs

stay intact. at the same time, the majority of people survey ethink all thre programs need to be rebuilt. they gave the programs mediocre scores for their improvement. >> the medicare stuff is really interesting. the problem with medicare isn't with the medical ircare but with the entire health care system. the payment system encourages more and more spending. it's been like that for 30 or 40 years. they'll have to bite the bullet and start capping payments with a p capitated system. let doctors and nurses figure out how to take care of people and give them a fixed amount of money to do it. that will fix their budget problem. >> dr. saks? >> there will be a deal but it will be a bad deal. it will be like last december with the precedes selling out. that's already been done. we basically have an agree the that the american people do not want, just as the pew survey said yesterday. richard is not right, the money is not where the entitlements

are, the money is with the top 1% of this country. they have almost 25% of the income. >> but there is money where the entitlements are are. that can be saved. >> the money off the table is the rich. that's the game. >> that's true. >> you have a room. every one of those people is a millionaire, and they are negotiating away the benefits of the poor because medicaid is going to be on the chopping block. they're negotiating the cost of living increases of social security. they're doing exactly what the american people do not want by overwhelming majorities and the reason that they're doing it behind closed doors is the american people do not want this agreement. that's all. >> defend yourself, how dare you. >> there are's a good point he makes, though. >> if there was, i missed it. >> come on, richard, you know where the money is in this country. >> let me make my point. there has to be a balanced deal.

entitlement growth is the biggest challenge not simply to our fiscal situation but american competitiveness. overall social security, much more than medicare. howard dean is right. >> we're not going -- >> zero chance we'll have a major overhaul. what you'll have in the short run are is small adjustments on entitlements, some reductions in the area of various tax arrangements and so-called tax expenditures, various benefits we get. the lion's share will go into the spending consults. like the british, i wouldn't be that shocked if we had a ratio not unlike that here. this is going to be a mini deal. let's not kid ourselves. this is not a grand bargain. this is, if you will, the mini bargain. this is enough to buy time so that down the road, after the 2012 election, then you can have the big powwow on what our fiscal changes are going to be. >> does it strike anyone here,

including governor dean in washington, that these are really not serious people when it comes to the future of this country? i mean, they're talking about interim bargains, six moz, a year, when the truth is you go to senior citizens in this country and you tell them, look, you're 70 -- don't worry about your benefits. you'll be okay until you die. 55 and younger, we'll have to tinker with the system to save it. unfortunately, all of these talks, negotiation over raising the debt ceiling is going on in a country with 9.1% unemployment, probably much higher than that. >> howard, if you heard, democrats and republicans on our show yesterday were so far apart, i don't know how they get anywhere by sunday. >> i think the political class has been out of touch in this country for a long, long, long time. the last guy who i thought really had his pulse on the finger of where america was was bill clintclinton. that was a hell of a long time ago. this washington is completely out of touch. look, you've got to make progress and deal with the

deficit. that is real. this is a step in the right direction. i agree with jeffrey. there will be things in here we don't like. but i think this is -- these are serious people. i think boehner is a great addition. i mean, obviously i prefer pelosi as speaker but i think boehner is doing a good job at speaker. this is his big test. this is going to pass with republican and democratic votes and there will be wings in both parties that don't want this. >> we're awaiting new unemployment numbers in june. 8:30 eastern time. we'll have full analysis. also, remember the crenshaw choir? they're world-famous director joins us with an exciting development about her students and where they might be going. but first, let's go to bill karins with a check on your weekend forecast. >> that choir was great. "atlantis" down on the launchpad, everything a go. launch about three hours from now, and the astronauts they're on board, they're suiting up and getting ready to fly.

the weather still the big question. if they were to take off right now, no problems at all. inside this pulsing ring they can't have thunderstorms or showers. right now there aren't any. as of now we're still good. it's going to be a very close call to see if this actually gets off the ground. the official forecast, only a 30% chance of a go, 70% chance of a no-go. we'll watch that closely. forecast today, tropical downpours in a lot of locations, especially the mid-atlantic, unthrough southern new england. already been a wet morning in massachusetts, that continues this afternoon. middle of the country is where the heat continues as we look toward saturday, much of the country is a lot drier, the southeast will still deal with the wet weather. then finally into sunday, notice p p much of the country, nice weekend, only exception is minneapolis to denver where you'll deal with afternoon storms. we'll be watching "atlantis" very closely, 11:26 a.m. east coast time here on msnbc.

you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

♪ yeah, beautiful. that was the amazing crenshaw high school choir singing for us last month. when we took "morning joe" to crenshaw as part of our brewing together commitment to education with star buksz. one of the great moments of the morning. it was so much fun. the director of the crenshaw choir, ira stephenson. i fell no love with her from the start. she joins us right now from los

angeles. good to see you, iris. >> good to see you, mika. >> she joins us with former president of walgreens, here for a special announcement. hal, good to have you on the show as well. nice to see you again. >> thank you. >> we were talking on the air that morning, all throughout the morning, about the choir wanting to go to china because crenshaw has a crenshaw to china trip. the question was, how do we get the choir there? i was e-mailing some friends, trying to see if anyone would want -- i e-mailed hal. he e-mailed me right back, hal. and what did you say? >> i said i'd love to have my family and i donate so that the students and choir could join together and go over to china. >> it was amazing, iris. he didn't think -- i mean, the e-mail came right back, a couple other people responded as well. but you know what? that shows -- that show was so

moving. it was so fun to be there, barnicle, wasn't it? and that choir, did you think that show would end without someone thinking, okay, not only do they need to go on that trip, but i've got to make it happen. it was a digger phelps moment. >> not only does it need to happen, but the larger universe that these kids will now experience is truly a gift that will reap its benefits for decades to come. iris, i want to ask you, being there in the school that day, listening to the choir, in terms of travel, how many of the kids who you know, not just in the choir but there at crenshaw high, have literally never seen the pacific ocean, never mind china? of. >> oh, there's so many. in fact, we took a field trip to pacific palisades, and we were taking the 10 freeway right no the pacific ocean and everyone stopped talking. they saw the beauty of the ocean, and they just stopped

talking. they just stopped their conversation all the way. so this is such a great opportunity for us to be able to go beyond the pacific ocean but over to china. thank you so much. >> hal, thank you so much. i'll ask hal because i was talking to your wife about this, your commitment to education on a number of levels. but why the choir? what was it that struck you, too, especially? i know i got some insight from her about your commitment to education and inner city development as well. >> well, my wife and kid have volunteered and been involved in inner city education, but just to see them left out when the rest of the kids were going over, they couldn't be left out. i think it's so important in this global economy we live in, they see not only what their future competitors are going to be here in the united states and what they need to be successful but also in china.

you know, it's a country that i think will open their eyes and will help them compare and contrast and it will be great for their overall education. >> and they will see a contrast, let me tell you. we'll talk about the economy in just a moment, but, iris, before you go, tell us a little bit about what the choir and the other kids will be doing in china. tell us about the trip and what your hopes are for it. >> well, the first thing is we have a program called sharing experiences and common ground because we want to be able to promote our global education. so this offer and this generosity of hal and renee ros ros rosenbluth was just wonderful because it came in the nick of time. we thank you so much not only to rosenbluths but also msnbc because mika -- please tell joe we missed him today, the hugs and kisses and to digger phelps, it was just a great time.

but msnbc and starbucks and mattel, american airlines and those individuals that came right on board to help us, of course, with u.p.s., we are just so excited about what happened with the los angeles urban league. the urban league has worked with our school, with crenshaw high school, and when the students were not going to be able to go, we were just happy for everybody else. but for somebody to think about the music department and think p t about the culture and the arts and the music and then just go ahead and pour out of their pockets for us to go, this is just one of the greatest things that could have happened to the crenshaw choir. we're going to beijing and so while we're on tour in beijing we're not only going to go to the great wall of china, but we plan on singing. singing, yes, at the great wall of china. we're going to tiananmen square,

to the forbidden city and then to the shanghai, shanghai museum. we'll visit neilsen and starbucks has an operation in beijing. this will just be an eye-opening experience for everybody. we call it a once-in-a-lifetime experience and we thank you. we have a special shout-out to, of course, blair taylor, ceo of los angeles urban league and adrian sears who helped put this thing together and to carrie all allen, those who were just supporters in supporting us. so thank you, thank you, thank you. >> well, iris, you have a good time. the choir, of course, is worlds renowned. now they will see the world. ms. stephenson, such a pleasure to meet you that day. >> oh, mika, you have my heart. >> you had mine, too. >> you know what's interesting? as i was listening to iris speak and how you could speak to this, people at certain levels of life, us, we take so much for

granted. you know, our ability to travel, our ability to purchase a pair of sneakers, whatever. and yet this will be a li life-altering xpeerngs for these kids. >> also. it will be great for them, for their families, for their community and frankly for our country. >> i think it's going to be amazing. i can't wait to hear about it. ms. stephenson, thank you so much. good luck in china. and, hal, before you go, i just want to talk to you a little bit about the economy and what's going on in washington, given your background in business and so much experience. what do you -- we're at a stalemate between entitlements and whether or not to raise taxes. what's your perspective as to what's going on in washington, given the fact that you make or break people's lives in terms of job creation as your business? >> well, if's been disappointing and discouraging to watch what's been going on. i do believe no pain, no gain. so i think we're going to have to come together.

i worry sometimes, you go in politics, naturally in washington, tend to get in the way of common sense. now is where we've got to come together as a country. i was talking to my son travis in the greenroom, and he is a college student. i said, travis, watch what's going on with this debt ceiling. earlier in your show, and he said, well, the problem is they have no young people that are involved in this conversation. i said, this is going to fall on you. >> yeah. well, your son, a lot of other people's sons and daughters, graduating from college, you wonder about the debilitating effect it has on them psychologically to put in four years at school, university, whatever, to rack up student loenz and go into a job market that does not exist for them. >> yeah. we've got to get things going and everybody is going to have to pitch in. we're going to have to do things we've never done as a country before, and it's time. you know, if not now, when? >> yeah. hal, thank you so much. thank you for your donation to

the crenshaw choir. it it's good to have you on the show this morning. we're just moments away from the new monthly unemployment reports. we'll have that live for you next on "morning joe." we're just moments away from

we have breaking news. the new monthly job numbers are in. they're not good. let's get the latest from simon

hobbs at the new york stock exchange. this is worse than they expected. >> way worse than expected, i'm afraid, mika. we only added 18,000 non-farm jobs last movement the market in the wake of the data we got yesterday was looking for possibly 125,000 jobs to be created. so barely no jobs overall. within that you've got the public sector that's clearly hemorrhaging, jobs down 39,000 and the private sector only adding 57,000. moments before this was released to the market and we're now looking at a fall of over 100 points in the dow at the open, an announcement from the white house came through that president obama will make a statement at 10:35, clearly a very difficult time for him and the now-14.1 million americans that are without work. and the unemployment rate has risen again now 9.2%. >> ezra, i watched you watching the numbers come in, and you just were gasping. >> they're terrible, terrible numbers. we gained about 60,000 private sector jobs, the reason we only

gained 18,000 total is we lost almost 40,000 in the public sector. this should be a big warning to washington. we cannot cut too quickly. if we cut a bunch of public sector or go into a debt ceiling default, lose a couple hundrtho jobs we don't have the for that. what this needs to tell washington is we have not recovered and we cannot move on completely from supporting the recovery into cutting and going into austerity unless we want a repeat britain's currently quite grim experience. >> the obama administration spent the first year and a half of its existence talking about health care. they've been preoccupied with the debt ceiling for four or months. j-o-b-s. jobs is the big story in this country, the lack thereof. >> simon? >> it's a huge disappointment for the market because we recently had data that indicated that make manufacturing was beginning to grow after the soft

patch of course we had in the spring. that was all down to they said what's happening out of japan because you're not getting spare parts from japan, the automakers have been -- we thought we might have started town block that and we were getting more manufacturing jobs coming ye in through. that's the disappointment. we may get a great july figure but this is a huge disappointment. we really thought we were getting traction, particularly on the information we got yesterday. i told you it wasn't a great indicator. >> we were talking a few moments ago what it's like to graduate into a weak labor market. we think of recessions or downturns as temporary things. they're not. we've done a lot of studies, if you graduate in that market, the effects don't go away. your income is lower for your entire life. when you're long-term unemployed, we have a lot of them now, if you've been unemployed, your skills erode and you never recover from that either. this isn't just something where,

oh, maybe it will take another year. the damage done from this every month that we don't really get into a sustained recovery, it lingers, continues, weakens the economy going forward. this needs to be considered a crisis, not just a slow recovery. we are still in an economic crisis in this country. >> well, the president is going to be speaking in the rose garden at -- is it 10:35, alex? >> yes. >> eastern time. and obviously the market will have a reaction to this, simon. >> yes, they will. but of course we're talking about austerity, talking about getting $4 trillion of austerity coming through both sides of congress. it's going to come down to the fed again. we're going to be talking about qe 3. if they're not hitting the mandate on the employment report they're going to have to start talking about the possibility of having a force-feeding more cash, more liquidity into the economy. presumably somebody is going to have to step up to the plate or have to and the backstop in this

instance i imagine is the federal reserve. you guys tell me what you think. we're all in the dark here, kind of fishing around for what you do next. how do you put demand into the economy? it's a demand deficit, the key problem we have. >> simon is exactly right. let's be very clear. the there's a lot the federal reserve can do. what qe-2 was government bonds in the hope interest rate could go down. they could buy assets in the real economy, like in qe-1. they could do price level targeting they basically say, until we have catch-up growth we're not going back to normal fed growth. we'll have accelerated fed policy even beyond what you expect which would change market expectations. ben bernanke has said if congress cuts too quickly, fed will have to act. with congress about to cut, it doesn't look like they're going to wait until we go into recovery and with the jobs numbers looking like this, you have to think the fed is going

to have to begin not just considering extraordinary measures but measures until recently they hoped they wouldn't have to think about. >> i wonder what we'll hear from the president. we just found out he's making a statement at 10:35, that's news along with this information. that's a tough balance for him, simon. >> it certainly is. as my colleague said, i wonder how they spin this, not to be unkind. but at the end he of the day, what can an incumbent president do in this environment? let's not forget we're coming off a situation where we basically almost lick liquified our banking is tsystem. at least we haven't had a depression, put it that way. how much worse could it have been had we not had those other measures. that's a hugely controversial statement to make. but what can a president do? i just -- >> i think we get into this conversation and simon i agree with you. but there's actually so much that a president and a congress that actually wanted to do something could do. >> but not a congress that's

been elected so much much of them by the tea party behind it. >> that's exactly right. but that's my point. >> they're in the corner. >> we need to not always allow the political reality of where the republican congress is to get us to stop talking about what needs to and should be done. we could do a larger payroll tax cut, a $50 billion immediate infusion into infrastructure spending and speed those projects through the regulatory review process. we could give aid to states and localities because right now they cut about 20,000 jobs last month. >> but surely -- >> we could do that. they don't let us. >> the orthodoxy has changed in the united states. people don't believe in keynesism anymore. you're talking with the greatest of respect in a very old-fashioned way. i personally agree with you, but that old-style economics is not where we are on capitol hill. >> you and i have no argument about the political reality on capitol hill.

my only point, those of us who have to comment on this, can't throw up our hands and say there's nothing we can done. congress' feet have to be held to the fire. they aren't doing what needs to be done. that's very different from, we can't do everything. >> but you're not the guy sitting there with the votes, with the greatest respect. this country is turning its back on keynesism which is really all we had, we're going let's cut taxes and go down the austerity route. i hope that works. >> the biggest problem is our politics out of washington is paralyzed. there's a state of paralysis in the united states government. >> actually they might get a deal this weekend and it's $4 trillion so they're working even harder on austerity further down the line. they're coming together just on the exact opposite side of the argument than you guys are. >> the right thing to do would be a 411 deal. $4 of long-term spending cuts for $1 of revenue for $1 of stimulus in the short term. there is no reason -- laura

tyson had a great op-ed and many economists put it this way, there's no reason we can't do long-term deficit reduction tied to the unemployment rate and until then we can do stimulus. there is nothing about those two things that is contradictory. in fact, if conservatives were smart they realize they could get liberals to agree to a lot more long-term deficit reduction by putting stimulus on the table and making it part of the negotiations. but we've become so i'd logically polarized around stimulus we won't even allow a win-win. we insist on a lose-lose. >> these numbers are just -- >> ideology once again trumps common sense. >> simon hobbs, thank you so much. >> sorry. have a great weekend. up next, after more than 160 years in business, britain's most popular newspaper suddenly shuts down amid a phone hacking scandal. a former editor is now under arrest. that story when we come back.

welcome back to "morning joe." there are new reports this morning that the former royal editor of the british tabloid "news of the world" is arrested on suspicious of corruption. it's on the front page of almost every uk paper. news corps, the owner of the paper, says the paper shuts down sunday amid the growing controversy. mike taibbi has details on the newspaper's demise onchts rupert murdock had little to say as the scandal jumped to a new level. >> i make no comments. >> reporter: but son james murdock, if the allegations are true, the newspaper was inhuman. >> i feel regret. clearly the practices of certain individuals did not live up to

the standards and quality of journalism that we believe in. >> reporter: one practice that met no standards, that grieving relatives of murdered children or of british soldiers killed in action had their cell phones hacked and their voice mail messages accessed. >> if these actions are proved to have been verified, i'm appalled. i find it quite disgusting. >> reporter: so did prime minister david cameron and both sides of the aisle in a rare emergency session of the house of commons, all in agreement that the public needs to know who was hacked, who did it,nd who knew about it. >> once we know that, then we will know where the blame lies and obviously the people responsible must pay a penalty. >> reporter: one person murdoch says is not responsible, roberta brookdz. murdoch chose to save her rather than one of britain's oldest p newspapers, some say. at age 80, murdoch's reputation has been shaken. >> the reports that this is the end of murdoch or the death of

murdoch in a business sense are are probably overstated, but it does give one pause to see a scandal of this proportion really spiral out of control. >> reporter: hacking the phones of celebrities and politicians was one thing, but harvesting the grieving voice mails of ordinary people dealing with tragedy triggered an explosion of revulsion that could not be contained. >> that was nbc's mike taibbi reporting. police also say the paper's editor in chief andy coal son has been arrested. he's also the former communications chief for david cameron who has announced a public inquirely and called for new regulation of the press. up next, michele bachmann admits she doesn't know much about lady gaga, but you might be surprised which gop candidate does. we'll be right back.

ka. i have a question for you guys. >> already. >> are you ready? >> what's your favorite lady gaga song? >> in tiers of the beat, i like "bad romance." i've got to say even though she's a little unusual, "born

this way" has some appeal. she's actually very talented. if you go to the end of the had hbo special, the lady gaga special, and you watch her sing a capella "born this way," she can definitely sing. she's talented. and she does it walk a capella. >> we have a huge day, lady gaga day, here in the studio. you a fan? >> you know, i don't really know that much about lady gaga. i hate to say it, i have a lot of children but don't know that much much about lady gaga. >> bachmann wins that. it's been 14 years since the first book in the harry potter series came out. last night marked another milestone in the franchise, the world premiere of the final movie that will bring down the curtain. michelle kosinski has the final chapter from london. >> reporter: the fans camped out in london rain from all over this world. >> sydney, australia. >> san francisco. >> salt lake city. >> reporter: they speak a language all their own.

>> it's fantastic. >> reporter: from a world of wizards, good versus evil that they've been raised on now for 14 years. >> the end of an epic phenomenon. >> reporter: harry potter got millions of kids to pull from the play stations and love reading. to keep wanting more, even at 15 or 17 or 45. the books have sold 450 million copies in 70 languages. the movie broke records, more than $6 billion in ticket sales. quite a run for the fantastical phenomenon that made little round glasses cool and made j.k. rauling the first billionaire auth author. she was a single mom on welfare when she wrote the first book in a cafe to stay warm. >> never in a million years. this is the last thing i expected. >> reporter: her adoring fans have grown up along with the characters. daniel radcliffe at 10 years old, speechless. today, the star of a play and

musical. emma watson -- >> i feel like i'm going to be sick, i tell you. hello, everyone out there! hi, grandma, grandpa! >> reporter: -- now on the cover of "vogue," an ivy league education awaits. >> part of me feels very old and part of me feels like i'm about to start my adolescence now this is over. >> reporter: they, too, see this closing of a long chapter as bittersweet. at least there's a new web site for fan that's have grown up with but not out of the boy wizard that cast quite a spell over their childhoods. >> finish this the way we started it. >> together! >> that was nbc's michelle kosinski reporting. up next, what if anything did we learn today?

time now to talk about what we learned today. >> it's a very are bad economy. >> there's nothing -- >> very, very bad. i wish i had better news. >> barely anyone left standing here. the numbers are bad. >> they all lost their job. >> yeah. the president speaks at 10:35 eastern time from the rose garden. we'll be watching that closely. as for you at 3:00 -- >> i'll be back on at 3:00 p.m. with a lot more on the jobs. >> everybody have a wonderful weekend. thanks so much for watching.